TTTPPP wrote:Flimsy you've written a lot of stuff, some of which is specific to some Christians, some of which is general, some of which isn't based on anything anyone else posted (eg. all knowing, infinitely loving). Some of the stuff you've written as if it's arguments against what I've written, but it says what I was trying to say
Please feel free to define your position more clearly, you have something of an advantage over me in that christianity is a framework within which exist thousands of wildly different belief systems and atheism is an easily summurizable rejection.
I assume you believe the bible is true in at least a metaphorical sense, so that narrows it down somewhat, but you people have an interestingly diverse set of interpretations of this supposedly divinely inspired document, so maybe it'd be good if you laid your cards on the table.
Does the god you believe in: (check all that apply)
Have absolute power over everything
Have knowledge of everything (past present and future)
Have emotions
Have goals (and what are they)
Love humanity (and to what degree)
Have a plan
Have a mind
Have a name (and what is it)
Did he (or it, or whatever):
Create the devil
Flood the entire earth at one point
Do all the other stuff it says he did in the bible
And is there anything else you'd like to share?
Another interesting thing is saying the thing about how we 'make decisions' is with chemistry in our brains. (As an aside I've no idea what Aplsos's "brainscape" is, and couldn't find a definition easily). This is my understanding of what science says:
Particals and waves interact under certain conditions, and will always interact the same way under the same conditions.
Our brain/body is made of particals and waves.
Our behaviour is completely predictable if we were able to observe an 'initial state'.
So my understanding is that science doesn't allow for people having freedom of choice. I think the majority of the world would claim (wrongly or rightly) that they do have freedom of choice.
I also think many of these people don't realise that there's a mistake somewhere.
This is essentially what science says, although some models of quantum mechanics say outcomes are random rather than predictable, or that the universe branches and all outcomes occur. But neither of those options is any better in terms of freedom of choice.
Let's say science is wrong and we are controlled not by the laws of physics, but by souls. Are these souls predictable, do they operate deterministically from initial conditions? If not, and they're not random, what are they?
I know the answer I'm going to get involves "free will", but what does that even MEAN? If free will is different from randomness, how is it different? In what way does an entity operating with free will behave differently from an entity operating with random will?
