I should make something

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Quantum P.
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I should make something

Post by Quantum P. »

Commodore wrote:(PS you should make something)
This is way overdue, but... I think I will!


I'm just trying to decide on a project. I've got plenty of ideas, but I can't make up my mind, and I'd really like input from you guys. The following is the result of a whole bunch of brainstorming, roughly cut down to some of the better ideas:

Space opera: The GV series was a poor-quality rip-off of Star Wars and War-Torn, and I'd really like to redeem myself. Perhaps that's a bit harsh, but I've learned some stuff since then, and I know I could make a better game. Not a remake or a sequel or anything, mind you -- just another game. Probably with spaceships. And maybe laser rifles. But definitely with a better story and fewer cutscenes.

Generic action game: Or, I could skip the story (or at least marginalize it) in favor of running around and shooting stuff. I like what Nadir did with Lebensraum -- it's a basic ZZT shooter, but what sets it apart from other ZZT games is the effective use of a couple of innovative engines. It's a ZZT shooter with a twist. A shooter with stealth components or multiple weapons would be interesting, provided that all the engine stuff is streamlined and doesn't get in the player's way.

Engine-based games: A 3D shooter in which turns aren't restricted to 90 degree angles. A non-trivial turn-based strategy game. Flight sim. Collection of card games. These projects are all technically impressive, stuff nobody has done before, and for good reason -- they're hard. Before starting on one of these, I'd have to be certain that it is possible to do in ZZT, and that I wouldn't lose interest after a week. As I did with most of these.

Concept games: A game with all dialogue in an invented language, where you have to learn the language to win the game. A game which spans various ZZT eras (e.g., first level is styled after pre-STK games). A game in which all perception is hallucination, but the real world still exists and is important to gameplay. These are all interesting ideas, but whether or not they would make good games is unknown.

So, what would you like to see? I reserve the right to actually decide on a project, but I really would appreciate your opinions.
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Jotz
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Post by Jotz »

You should make a generic action game about someone killing an entire army. There must be at least 50 object enemies on every board. You make friends along the way but they must be killed eventually. In the end you must dodge flying skeletons within a nuclear explosion.
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Post by Ellypses »

All your ideas are rich! If I was to choose, I'll pick...concept. Generic action game can be done the fastest of the four. Diving into an engine-based game is very rewarding, but like you said, you might not get done and defeats the purpose if you're way over-due unless you're one hundred percent sure you'll complete it.
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Shadow Mage
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Post by Shadow Mage »

Go for a mix of a concept and action game. Simply one or the other might get boring. But if you invest in 2 different ideas, you stand a better chance of comming out ahead. (Provided they compliment eachother rather than oppose eachother)
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Post by superbowl shuffle »

I rather like the idea of a different language, though I think if the language was completely made up it would be rather hard. I could see it working well if the language was slightly altered and making correct dialogue choices were part of the gameplay. Kind of like A Clockwork Orange ZZT. I made a game some time ago where the dialect was weird and making it was fun.

A problem with engine games is that similar games might exist outside of zzt where they are much less awkward. I think a question we have to ask ourselves as we make games in these times is what can a zzt game offer that can't be found elsewhere.
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Scribbit
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Post by Scribbit »

Y'know what ZZT has that made me stick with it after trying several game creation engines? A versatile, intuitive interface. Seriously, I'd rather type something resembling English like

Code: Select all

#if blocked n doSomeStuff
than something complete yet complex like

Code: Select all

if (objectAt(this.x, (this.y - 1)).isSolid())
{
   doSomeStuff();
}
Also, I can play ZZT on the old computer in the house when my brothers are playing fancy internet games on the faster computers. Although sometimes I think having the option to do that complex stuff would be nice, I'd probably be willing to sacrifice completeness for simplicity.
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Quantum P.
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Post by Quantum P. »

A game with an invented language might be fun. I'm half tempted to use an existing language (get the Esperanto community ZZTing, for example), but that sounds like too much work, and it would defeat the point for people who already knew the language.

To address ease-of-learning concerns, I would have to make the language English-based or highly regular (or both, I suppose). Giving the language English roots provides an obvious setting of a futuristic world (newspeak, Nadsat, etc).

I just realized there's a lot about my own language I don't know.

Not focusing on engines is good advice. Personally, I enjoy coming up with workarounds for ZZT's limitations -- it's just something I have fun thinking about. It's just not practical from a game-making standpoint, though.
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Scribbit
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Post by Scribbit »

I just had an idea. You could make the language have a strict grammar similar to ZZT's own OOP language. Or you could make a simple language from scratch that has words that refer to the basic ZZT objects and colors. So maybe over time the player could learn to associate a certain word with "pushable block" and another with "key" and stuff like that, and then you could string together descriptors to talk about more complicated things, on the order of "query gems number required buy red key?" and stuff like that, but in some weird derivative language. Maybe have the player reminded in some faint way of the fictitiousness of the game to help them solve a puzzle? I could probably write up a language along these lines, if you need help. I'm having fun imagining how the grammar would work.
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Scribbit
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Post by Scribbit »

Okay, I think I've got the basics of a language made up. Someone give me an english sentence that might need to be translated for the game, I've only worked out the basic grammar because I need to know what words to make up. Like,

swip 1010 ozo shimmy 1 blud clikkeh

might mean

I will give you a red key for 10 gems.
or, to arrange it like the original sentence,
Trade me 10 gems for 1 red key.

The grammar I'm working on bears resemblance to the syntax of ZZT-OOP, and the made-up words are just a form of pidgin that started forming in my head. Like, blud is red, swip is trade, and so on.
Are you still working on that game?
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Quantum P.
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Post by Quantum P. »

I am still planning to make a game! I'm more or less decided on a invented-language game, but I can't guarantee anything. When brainstorming for a setting, I got a bit carried away and came up with this really elaborate sci-fi plot. Then I realized that it was becoming another space opera, and that the whole language thing was more of a gimmick than the focus of the game. I'll have to greatly simplify the plot (or discard it completely and start fresh).

I think instead of inventing a language from scratch, I'll work on revising the English language. I'm planning to (1) make it more regular, (2) write a bunch in the revised language, and (3) revise language further to make the dialogue less awkward. Repeat until as far removed from English as necessary (might need a beta-tester or two when I get something substantial together). That way, it will be easier to learn (for English speakers) and feel organic.

I want to get the language figured out before I start putting stuff together, just so I don't have to go back and correct all the dialogue every time I want to make a minor change to the language. I might work on some of the level design, though. Stay tuned...
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Scribbit
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Post by Scribbit »

I might be able to help if you start from scratch. I'm good at coming up with elaborate worlds, it's the action I always trip over. I tend to write either no dialogue or all dialogue when I try to make up plots.
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Quantum P.
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Post by Quantum P. »

Image

Hopeful release date: by the end of September.

My goal used to be a new game every month. How times change...
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Scribbit
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Post by Scribbit »

Well, the standard's raised somewhat, and the veteran ZZT-ers probably want to have lives now. As long as someone's working on a game, and occasionally one gets released, I think we'll manage.
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Post by Commodore »

Quantum P. wrote:My goal used to be a new game every month. How times change...
I know, after living dead I crapped out sid's disaster in a month. it shows too, full of bugs. Interesting side note, that was my first month away at college, and I flunked the semester!
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Post by Dr. Dos »

My goal has always been a game per year.

08 - Own of ZZT
07 - Moose Rules with an Iron Fist: Third Reich Ed.
06 - So Long and Thanks for All the Yiff
05 - Fuzzy Love Horror
04 - Aura
03 - Simple Games for Simple Minds
02 - Virus 302 SE

Surprisingly I've been doing it.
Visit the Museum of ZZT
Follow Worlds of ZZT on Twitter

Apologies for the old post you may have just read.
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