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Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:20 pm
by Mooseka
this is all wrong

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:52 am
by Zenith Nadir
Okay, just to weigh in as a languages student on the Tails'/Tail's/Tails/Tails's thing:

There are two conflicting bases here, the first one having to do with possessive formation in Germanic nouns and the other having to do with how Latin handles loan-words. As people who have too much time on their hands will tell you, every stupid piece of grammar that people complain about because it "doesn't make sense" is an example of someone trying to make English more like Latin, so let's start with that one.

Latin is, of course, an inflected language with lots and lots of cases (English has two: Objective and Subjective and it only really matters with pronouns: he/him, I/me, we/us etc.; Latin has ~6). So with a nice, Latin name like Julius, it's very easy to make a possessive, as you'd merely have to use the genitive case: Julii. That's oversimplifying, but you get the point.

Later on, when you're getting Vulgate Bible forms of Hebrew names, they're Latin transliterations (words changed from one alphabet to another) of Greek transliterations of the original Hebrew, and it got very confused. Some of them look enough like Latin words that they continue to decline ("Rebecca" (sometimes) goes to "Rebeccae, Rebeccam" etc) but others simply don't decline at all and they can function as whatever case the sentence needs. So what started out as a "just do what sounds good" rule gave us the fascist grammarian "Biblical names don't decline except when they do" rule, then later on that gets changed into "foreign names that look weird," and by the time we get to modern English the only names capable of "looking weird" are those that already end in S.

The second force at work has to do with Germanic noun formation. If you go back far enough (even in Chaucer's day, although it's more pronounced in Anglo-Saxon) English was also heavily inflected, and there were two kinds of nouns: strong (those that experience a stem change in the plural) and weak (those that don't). Think of child/children and man/men vs. lamp/lamps. They declined differently, but masculine and neuter strong verbs had the ending -es in the genitive, of which 's is today's convoluted cousin.

As the language simplified, and we ended up with a couple of fossilized constructions (grabbing a sword "by the hilts," the word "midships," constructions like "one of John's friends") the only die-hard case was the genitive, which saw the rules shift completely so that the rule was simply "add an s." (I'm afraid this part is a bit out of my expertise, so someone else will have to explain why that happened)

Later on, and I swear I read this somewhere but I can't any longer remember where, so take it with a grain of salt, an 18th century grammarian who didn't really understand this point, decided (not completely without reason) that the s must be a contraction with a genitive article "his": rather than "Johns buddy" the construction was originally "John his buddy," and thus we ought to have an apostrophe there. I have no idea how he ended up with s' for plurals (except for the plurals of strong nouns, which are still 's: child's/children's and never, never childrens') but whatever; that seems to be the rule. My point is that the apostrophe doesn't actually have a philological reason for its existence, it's merely an aid to comprehensibility.

So Tails. Tails is a nickname that's actually the plural of the common noun "tail," because he happens to have two tails. It's also what for argument's sake we'll call a loan-name, in that it doesn't immediately conform comfortably to our expectations. So we're left with two conflicting principles again: do we want the "correct" form, or the form that functions as an aid to understanding? We're left with a few titles:

1) Tails' Adventure - If we take the "tails" as a plural common noun, they function as a synechdoche for the whole fox who happens to have two tails, and this form works grammatically. It really should have a definite article in front of it, though: "The Tails' Adventure."
2) Tails's Adventure - If we take "Tails" as a proper noun with no reference to the fact that it's kind of a plural, this form makes perfect sense, and conveys the possessive nature. "Tails's Adventure."
3) Tails Adventure - In this case, the "Tails" doesn't function as a possessive at all, but rather this is a hendiadys, a construction in which one just throws two nouns together as a phrase and one functions vaguely as an adjective, like "paper plate." Tails here is limiting the kind of adventure it is.

I'd probably go with door #2, but 3 is probably what's printed on the box.

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:14 pm
by Schroedingers Cat
holy SHIT nadir

...wow. just... wow.


:safe:

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:32 pm
by Dr. Dos
Tails' Adventure was the best game gear game.

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:36 pm
by Commodore
nadir capitalised!

:agh:

nice word: hendiadys

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:19 pm
by Kjorteo
I've never played Tail's'sss's's's's's's's'' adventure.

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:27 pm
by Zenith Nadir
Commodore wrote:nadir copy-pasted!

:agh:

nice word: hendiadys
can't believe someone would write that much shit about an ass-old game gear game without stopping and thinking "what the fuck's wrong with me. i am wasting my life."

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:32 pm
by Commodore
i did search for some of the sentences but came up empty.

Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:37 pm
by Kjorteo
Writing "what the fuck happened to this man's life"-sized walls of text about Sonic characters (even obscure ones) is the hip new thing to do on the internet

or have you not seen Wikipedia lately

Re: They Fill Me With Joy So Profound

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:01 am
by meldels
I am meldels, VOILA!

Re: They Fill Me With Joy So Profound

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:17 am
by Schroedingers Cat
WHY ARE YOU BUMPING A

Oh. It's stickied. CARRY ON.

Quad Damn it.

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:59 pm
by H1~~
My turn.
I inadvertently broke all of Dr. Dos's 12 'Z2 Survival Guide' rules in a row.
VVVVV homage to ZZT
Furry Ideological Pursuits...
Far too many unfinished ZZT games to work on at once
Why I'm awkward about ZZT forums
I hate me.
Did I win the thread?

Re:

Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:52 am
by Commodore
Zenith Nadir wrote:Also Greenshrike I hope that thing between your avatar's legs is a tail.

Re: They Fill Me With Joy So Profound

Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:36 am
by Mooseka
so what's up dudes

Re: They Fill Me With Joy So Profound

Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:55 am
by bitbot
hi i'm bitbot. i'm a newbie.