PBHHT
-
- newcomer
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:51 pm
- Location: Between the peak of a man's knowedge, and the pit of his fears...
PBHHT
Hello everybody! This is my first post (then I'll read the rules to see what I did wrong) Anyway, I was searching for games for my MP2500 handheld (if your'e wondering, no it did not run well.) and discovered ZZT. So, I played some of the included games, enjoyed them, and decided to my own. It's a pretty simple game right now (I've only been working on it two days) but hopefully it will eventually get in to the hall of fame or whatever you call it.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=6979 ... b9a8902bda
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=6979 ... b9a8902bda
dodedodododedodo(the twilight zone theme)
-
- Official Clamp School Defender
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:06 pm
- Location: 1. n. a place of settlement, activity, or residence
Okay. Well. Everyone has to start somewhere.
If you're going to make some ZZT games, you must (and I do mean must) at least play through a few of the more famous (because they were more successful) ZZT games.
You would begin to realize that they are fun games precisely because they don't do a lot of the things you did:
1. Yellow borders.
(seriously, just get rid of them)
2. Yellow borders.
(no, seriously. They detract from the game, and many ZZTers won't even play a game with yellow borders intact)
3. Yellow borders!!!
(I'm serious!!!!!!)
4. Big empty boards with (next-to) nothing in them
(if there's nothing in them... why are they there?)
5. Big mostly-empty boards that would be empty if there weren't a pointlessly involving "maze" you must go through that isn't really a maze, it's just some serpentine corridors
(It's like an empty board, only it takes longer and irritates the player. See #4)
6. No plot
(now... this one's a little trickier to pin down. There certainly can be good games without plot: that little square things puzzle game is a good example. But even a nominal attempt at plot is more than enough to make a game far more interesting. Take for example Tim Sweeney's original ZZT games: Town, Caves, Dungeons, etc. The plot of Town of ZZT is simply: you need to get into the palace (why? that's irrelevant!). You need purple keys to get into the palace. Go to it!
(and by god, that token plot (that's barely a plot) is all that's necessary for a game to feel at least a little cohesive. Your game... didn't even have that)
7. Using the same color of key repeatedly in the same board.
(This isn't really as much of a big deal... but it means that a player has to go to the door every time they get a key, and cannot simply collect the keys and move on. If that's what you want, fine. But when it gets combined with #5, players stop playing)
8. Boards with nothing but tons of enemies
(I mean, yeah, okay. Sure, shooting stuff is kinda fun, and I guess it's kind of a danger, but basically, it just gets repetitive pretty fast, and then it just is boring.)
9. Using built-in enemies
(To tell you the truth, this one bothers me not at all. I don't seem to have the extreme prejudice against them that many of the other ZZTers have, but nonetheless, it's at least something to be aware of. If you want other people to play and enjoy your game, anyway.)
10. No resolution
(it just kinda... stops. the dark room simply doesn't go anywhere.)
11. Having a dark without being sure players will have torches first.
(I went left, first, through the locked doors. I ended up just ?-dark ing it. I went left first because the first thing to get is the first yellow key. The second "collectible" to be seen is another yellow key. This is significant psychological enticement - players will want to get the other key. This means unlocking the first door, collecting the second key and, oh! look at that, unlocking the other door. The path to that door will be cleared through the slime. The path to the other room will not be. Players will thus likely play the room in this order. If you wanted to be sure that players would go down first, you should have thought about that and made decisions based on what you came up with. There are definitely ways to direct players where you want without being too heavy-handed about it. Sometimes subtle things work really well)
12. Having an empty board with only bonus-item generators.
(the replicators with the items are kind of weird to begin with, but really, this comes down to violating #4)
Anyway, I'm not trying to be too down on you, man, but these things will help immensely.
To conclude:
<s>Recommended</s>Required playing:
Town, Dungeons, Caves, and City of ZZT (the originals!)
(i might suggest but others might disagree)Link's Adventure (parts 1-3) (it's an older game. Well before the real ZZT renaissance of programming tricks and STK and the like, but it does some things well, and others not so well. I think it's a good period piece. A vital link in the chain of ZZT history that will help round out your understanding of what makes a good ZZT game good)
Burger Joint (Beyond classic. It's funny, wacky, the graphics are pretty good, the story is excellent, and the concept of an apparently "one-board" game is pretty compelling)
Edible Vomit (Atmospheric! Graphic! Weird beyond belief! A real must-play)
Code Red (An adventure game with some real depth)
Winter (completely wordless atmospheric game)
Banana Quest (oh, those rascally bananas!)
Eli's House (it's fareakin' hayoooj!)
The Gemhunter games (There's a bunch of em)
Burglar! (another massive game)
The Rhygar games (they're pretty cool)
And definitely, DEFINITELY, DEFINITELY:
The ZZT Encyclopedia
ZZT Syndromes (much of the content within is outlined above in #1-12, but it's worth playing just to get the visual reinforcement)
Also, here's a huge list of games that are apparently worth playing, since I'm not super familiar with the z2 library.
-
- newcomer
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:51 pm
- Location: Between the peak of a man's knowedge, and the pit of his fears...
Yeah, now that I think of it, those yellow borders are kinda icky. How about multicolor borders? Hmm... Anyway... Story, Hmmm... Uhh... You fell down a hole while being chased by a grue? Good for now. The reason for the lack of conclusion is that the game is still in development. So, no mazes. I'll keep the one I just wrote (if it works) and kill off the two you played. Problem 11 was a bug. That room wasn't supposed to be dark. The replicator room was just for dev purposes. #9 is duly noted.
Oh, and which boards are empty? I don't know of any empty boards.
The rooms with nothing but monsters... I kind of like the centipede room...
Oh, and which boards are empty? I don't know of any empty boards.
The rooms with nothing but monsters... I kind of like the centipede room...
dodedodododedodo(the twilight zone theme)
-
- Official Clamp School Defender
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:06 pm
- Location: 1. n. a place of settlement, activity, or residence
If nothing else, I suggest taking a quick trip through ZZT Syndromes, and for additional reading, maybe some ZZT Crimes.
To get a really good sense of how ZZT games have evolved beyond Tim Sweeny's original levels, you really just need to play a shit-ton of other people's games. But uh, that also takes about a metric assload of time to do.
But to get a good sense of the fundamentals of making an enjoyable game... I think those two worlds will help. And not consume all of your free time, either :x
To get a really good sense of how ZZT games have evolved beyond Tim Sweeny's original levels, you really just need to play a shit-ton of other people's games. But uh, that also takes about a metric assload of time to do.
But to get a good sense of the fundamentals of making an enjoyable game... I think those two worlds will help. And not consume all of your free time, either :x
-
- newcomer
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:51 pm
- Location: Between the peak of a man's knowedge, and the pit of his fears...
Okay, I've removed all the mazes and the yellow border. I also added a boss at the end (who should be tough to beat, but I think he has some bugs.)
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=6979 ... b9a8902bda
Use the 22.7 KB file. I suppose I should give them different names next time...
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=6979 ... b9a8902bda
Use the 22.7 KB file. I suppose I should give them different names next time...
dodedodododedodo(the twilight zone theme)
- Zenith Nadir
- this is my hammer
- Posts: 2767
- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 11:40 am
- Location: between the black and white spiders
there's a whole world of zzt games outside of the original package, the archive has about 2000
of course, only about 500 of those at most are worth anyone's time. play my games, they're ok (except when they're horiffically embarrassing bullshit i wrote when i was 17)
also anything by draco, tucan, clysm, madtom (well, except greed 1, that kinda sucks), bluemagus, darren hewer, gingermuffins and wil
also also anything from the featured games section: http://zzt.org/?p=fg
oh yeah, and greg janson's games, they are oldschool but they're still very good
also; dodedodododedodo(the twilight zone theme)
of course, only about 500 of those at most are worth anyone's time. play my games, they're ok (except when they're horiffically embarrassing bullshit i wrote when i was 17)
also anything by draco, tucan, clysm, madtom (well, except greed 1, that kinda sucks), bluemagus, darren hewer, gingermuffins and wil
also also anything from the featured games section: http://zzt.org/?p=fg
oh yeah, and greg janson's games, they are oldschool but they're still very good
also; dodedodododedodo(the twilight zone theme)
he looked upon the world and saw it was still depraved
Overall: Rotton egg for breakfast
Overall: Rotton egg for breakfast
- Schroedingers Cat
- We must invent teleportation!
- Posts: 721
- Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:35 pm
- Location: Idaho, Wisconsin
Actually, I thought Greed 1 was pretty damn good for a first game.
PS FOX TAMPONS
PS FOX TAMPONS
Last edited by Schroedingers Cat on Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Zenith Nadir
- this is my hammer
- Posts: 2767
- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 11:40 am
- Location: between the black and white spiders
- Schroedingers Cat
- We must invent teleportation!
- Posts: 721
- Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:35 pm
- Location: Idaho, Wisconsin
- asiekierka
- YAHOO: ALL YOUR GEOCITIES ARE BELONG TO US
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:06 am