more people

[Scribbit]

Yeah, Zandor? I tried some ZZT games in plastic and it's pretty good in terms of reverse compatibility. It can already do everything you said except for simulating existing ZZT glitches, like the player clone. You could, however, fix this in the Plastic version by making a custom object in your game's library that does what you needed the player clone to do, and then just change [#put <dir> player] to [#put <dir> playerclone], and plastic would find it in the library for you! I like the [#jump] command because it lets the player step on top of objects, useful if you want to make custom items or transporters.

In fact, I think that by using commands that only work in Plastic but won't cause errors in ZZT (like [#if aligned]), you could make a game that knows whether it's being run in Plastic or ZZT and changes instructions accordingly.

Also, Nadir? Are you one of the furries here or not? I keep forgetting who is who, given that this community feels rather alienating when you first walk by it.

EDIT: what stage is Bang! in now? I've heard a lot about it on this thread but can't find a download link, and it occurred to me that it might not be finished yet.

[superbowl shuffle]

I managed to go a year without having to remember that I knew what yiff means. Now that is ruined, assholeivore!

ZZT clones that aren't megazeux always fail and always will. I have seen this happen about thirty times!

[Zenith Nadir]

Also, Nadir? Are you one of the furries here or not? I keep forgetting who is who, given that this community feels rather alienating when you first walk by it.

short answer is: no, furry subculture is seriously the worst

long answer is: was marginally affiliated in teenage years, now cured but unwilling to separate from what originally made it appealing (animal people), because i still like them

[zamros]

Refer to the handy table in the <a href="http://zzt.org/zu/wiki/Furry">Furry</a> article on ZU for any other ZZTer Furry Related Questions.

[Jotz]

EDIT: what stage is Bang! in now? I've heard a lot about it on this thread but can't find a download link, and it occurred to me that it might not be finished yet.

Here's all you need for your BANG! experience.

Program + games:
http://download.yousendit.com/769F02C13EC082D3

Help guide:
http://download.yousendit.com/C92A064B38644AE5

[Scribbit]

Hey, here's an idea: Make an entirely new game, inspired by ZZT and that entertains the same sort of person, but make it in Flash or Java so it can be embedded in a webpage. Then new users wouldn't have to mess with finding ZZT and a good game and possibly DosBox if they want to use a mac or linux or vista or something. You could just point your browser to a webpage and there would be an applet/swf running the game, maybe you could even make multiplayer this way.

I like jotz' idea with Bang!, I tried it, it's not MegaZeux but it'd be hard for new players to figure out the editor. I coudn't figure it out until I read through some of the help files, a help key in the editor would be nice.

[Quantum P.]

I once tried to make a ZZT emulator in Java. I don't think I made much progress, but that was partly because I really sucked at programming back then.

My take on the whole "ZZT doesn't have enough features" debate: ZZT sure isn't perfect, but it's good enough. Many have tried to chase perfection, but it usually isn't worth the time/effort -- there's only been one major success, and that's MegaZeux.

It would be interesting to see a minimalist ZZT clone, one that tries to reduce inconsistencies rather than be more powerful. MegaZeux intimidates newcomers because of feature creep -- there's always someone who wants just one more feature, and the result is chaos.

[Scribbit]

I've messed around with plastic, and I think it has about the right number of features. I might want to thin out the ones that are only there to be compatible with ZZT, however. I'd take out [#if alligned] in favor of [if(aligned)] or maybe even [if((this.xPos == player.xPos) || (this.yPos == player.yPos))]. It's a bit longer, but I'd let the designer make custom methods and stuff. Bang! is pretty powerful with it's Spawn layer and stuff, but honestly I'd prefer an object library and I can do without multicolor sprites. Maybe I should make a list of the bare minimals a GCE needs, and make a new game system entirely. I'd have it so you could do more complex stuff with the tools available, but you'd have to start with simple stuff like tiles and canCollide and maybe shooting, and build up to more complex stuff.

[Dr. Dos]

You're new and interested in programming and this is good.

But seriously don't waste your time trying to make the perfectly balanced GCS because nobody ever hits it and most don't get beyond a basic alpha version that lets a player move around.

[Scribbit]

Whoever said anything about perfectly balanced? I just want something that's easy to use and has all the commands you need to do anything if you find the right way to do it. You can make platformers in ZZT. Not very good ones, but working ones nonetheless. Maybe I can even find some people to help out, and yes, I know it will probably fizzle after a few attempts, but that's no reason not to try!

I made it here, right? If I can post on z2 without feeling like I'm in over my head, then I can make a working piece of software without giving up after a couple weeks. And even if it turns out terrible, remember this:

At least you'll have the source code.

[gingermuffins]

Hey, here's an idea: Make an entirely new game, inspired by ZZT and that entertains the same sort of person, but make it in Flash or Java so it can be embedded in a webpage. Then new users wouldn't have to mess with finding ZZT and a good game and possibly DosBox if they want to use a mac or linux or vista or something. You could just point your browser to a webpage and there would be an applet/swf running the game, maybe you could even make multiplayer this way.

http://nanobox.chipx86.com/zztjs/

[Scribbit]

Yeah, it works, but it's slow and an attempt to copy ZZT. I'm talking about something new, designed for the web. Neat idea, though.

Ooh, I just had a crazy idea! You make this program, right, that only lets you do stuff in simple terms like one-step-at-a-time, but then you sum up some groups of commands so you have stuff to move left, shoot north, etc, and then you give names to these custom commands and draw some simple sprites, and you just make a system like this. Now, when you want to make a game, you just use those custom commands, and they do stuff in the game. The step-at-a-time commands would be slightly above the base level language because the output and input would be predefined and a simple tile system would be built in. What you'd have would basically be a GCECE, a game creation engine creation engine!

Either that, or I just reinvented Flash.

[Dr. Dos]

Why does Nanobot still make these things if he's not even around

[Saxxon]

I'd like to spark some interest for Super ZZT myself. There's lots of cool stuff to be done there and it's exploration-centric, but the lack of a good editor has driven everyone else off. Like H could be used for inventory, etc... it only slightly hinders art for the lack of a char 176 element other than floor, but you could always work around that...

Maybe I should start a project now. It's gotten me in the mood again. Though I've been following ZZT since the days of zzt.org - I still don't have a first game released yet.

Also remember that gaming has changed - it's now a contest between developers who can deliver the best graphics. Fun gameplay got screwed in the ass during this process, but that's the way the story goes.

[Scribbit]

But why should gameplay suffer for graphics? I know of a handful of games that have good graphics and good gameplay, and some with terrible graphics and good gameplay. There's still an ascii art crowd, and some roguelike games keep interest. I've recently posted ZZT links to related forums and been asked if it was a roguelike or something, my best reply so far is that it's a slightly different style of gameplay but with a rogue-like interface. Maybe I should make a plastic executable of Dungeon Master's Gallery or something like that and post it when people compare ZZT to rogue, it's a good "Bridge" game.