Lyon

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Saxxon
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Re: a Mystery programming language?

Post by Saxxon »

ghettoflower wrote:I like Lyon so much. When I think that it runs most of my games flawlessly and even on a netbook AND i can hear basically what the pc speaker noises sound like (no pc speaker in netbooks) I think to myself that's so nice. I'm very happy with the lyon executable and the roton library.

It does not run my avarice.szt very well and kinda lags but in its defense there is a LOT going on in avarice .. I forget if a couple object when touched even crashed lyon, but that was cool.. Playing avarice is obvious in what doesn't work, but I believe any changing of the ... custom counter's name makes it crash, and it runs a little slow.. and the H button doesn't work on the title screen which advances the title screen's viewpoint in the cinematicey intro thing at your ease..

It would be nice to get a running copy of avarice that works perfect so I can post it at GT during a jam and give it another whirl.

I hope if you do get it rewritten it doesn't become the curse where you lose interest and abort. I like the project the way it is.. I've got one guy over in the other ug i'm in that is against anything written that relies on the net framework as it doesn't work for him so I'd spread the message. I think he doesn't use winders though.

We met in person too and that was pretty cool. But yeah I finally got a chance to check it out and for me well, it's an asset. I'd love to see scrolling graphics even though my latest title relied on the board edges not scrolling... Slightly more text file support would be nice too. like for instance I wanna rerelease Superugh.zip (http://hairypiano.com/Superugh.zip again in that other ug all posh and remade and slightly more vanilla, only part not working is the links to all the various text files. Otherwise everything else is ready.

Anyway good luck and happy trails.. I'll try to scroll back through this thread as I didn't reply sooner because I wanted to be up to date on the thread first but thought I'd say hi first.
Thanks for posting, really glad you like what I've done so far. It's only getting better from all the feedback and bug reports I've been given.

I've finally been able to get the code to an actual online repository! The current push features almost 0% of the code from the latest build posted on this forum. I didn't really want to say that I was rewriting the whole thing (only since last week) but I have a very good reference from the old code.

I'll just be publishing binary builds on this forum from here on out. Those of you interested in source:
https://github.com/SaxxonPike/Roton
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Re: Lyon

Post by Saxxon »

Soon.
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Re: Lyon

Post by Saxxon »

The new version will have some incredible performance improvements when using software rendering due to selective updating. I was able to get Avarice working as well, completed it with no issue other than it was somewhat slow on the first game board (the game itself dogs on real hardware so not unexpected). I did get the title screen working as expected.

The game HUD is nearly finished for Super ZZT- it will be indistinguishable from the original when I am done.

Edit: On a side note, wouldn't it be wacky if it was ported to MZX? It'd be like an interpreter inside an interpreter. It's kind of scary because these days MZX would actually be capable...
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Re: Lyon

Post by Commodore »

So it will will allow for aspect ratio changes? Between 40 col and 80?
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Re: Lyon

Post by Saxxon »

Commodore wrote:So it will will allow for aspect ratio changes? Between 40 col and 80?
I can make that possible. But the SZZT classic hud will still be designed for 40 col, and as such will look like the first image I posted if run in 80col proportions.
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Re: Lyon

Post by Baby Bonnie Hood »

Saxxon wrote:On a side note, wouldn't it be wacky if it was ported to MZX? It'd be like an interpreter inside an interpreter. It's kind of scary because these days MZX would actually be capable...
But MZX can't do centipedes :D
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Re: Lyon

Post by Saxxon »

Baby Bonnie Hood wrote:
Saxxon wrote:On a side note, wouldn't it be wacky if it was ported to MZX? It'd be like an interpreter inside an interpreter. It's kind of scary because these days MZX would actually be capable...
But MZX can't do centipedes :D
MZX can totally do Centipedes. They just aren't built in, and no one's bothered to do it right yet :)
My implementation would be 100%, but I dunno how fast it would be.
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Re: Lyon

Post by Smilymzx »

Saxxon wrote:
Baby Bonnie Hood wrote:
Saxxon wrote:On a side note, wouldn't it be wacky if it was ported to MZX? It'd be like an interpreter inside an interpreter. It's kind of scary because these days MZX would actually be capable...
But MZX can't do centipedes :D
MZX can totally do Centipedes. They just aren't built in, and no one's bothered to do it right yet :)
My implementation would be 100%, but I dunno how fast it would be.
Can you please prove it, and if it is true, I would love a MZX file for my ports and games! (Make sure it is Commented, Including Parameters)

Also Lachesis tried this, but has difficulty doing it...

EDIT: Not trying to force anything I hope... I just wanted a little test!
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Re: Lyon

Post by Saxxon »

To show just how huge of a performance increase I got out of this: I got Preposterous Machines SINE to run in a few seconds. In superspeed mode, it keeps one of my CPU cores maxed out, so I know for sure it is utilizing all available power. The actual execution of ZZT is not optimized for multi-core, and probably can't be due to the serial nature of how the game's processing goes.

Still, this Mandelbrot thing is trucking along. I'm going to see how long it takes.
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Re: Lyon

Post by ghettoflower »

That's nice. I never expected avarice's trippy board to cause future generations a little lag. I still think superzzt was such a fun medium since the output came out great.. it was such a drag though after all the years of kevedit. I was slightly worried it wouldn't run on everyone's computer since having a different tile on each board even without extra code exceeded the 20k limit. I made sure I didn't have to include the exe file wil made for me that makes the boards a 65535 whatnot limit.

I think even with a more in depth editor and a larger edit screen it would have still been unpopular. I bet sweeney and allen pilgrim made it on a dare. A while ago, probably in 2003 or so I went on a mission to search for the lost zzt names.. You know the usual superstars. I remember only finding allen pilgrim. I remember finding his site and telling him thank_you for superzzt and kiloblaster.. he was happy for the e-mail.. I think it was around xmas time so i wished him seasons greetings and stuff. He said he was indeed the same pilgrim responsible for those but was most happy with xargon.

so I guess project thank_you was an overall success.
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Re: Lyon

Post by ghettoflower »

Hey smileymzx I appreciate you going through the effort of mentioning all the tsrs that do various stuff. I was also amazed by them and searched for 3 weeks non-stop looking for scancode, the only tsr i found that was compatible with making zzt hotkeys. And of course I used ZPalette in lil buddie to make it almost mzx-like with that and a custom font. This one goes to you and bitbot.

Instead of an ini file that would establish zzt's changed defaults it'd be cool if lyon and/or attempted to go through the hacked executable and replicate based on that, sort of like making banana quest compatible.

Only one person I know of even released a zzt file with a hacked executable that really changed the defaults as WiL simply changed the cheats to untypable characters and changed code strings so you couldn't just run it with regular zzt. That was catouttahades which I have to give credit to him as he went through my little hex edit faq that wil/dos helped me with. his file's algorithm and it's on the archive thing.

http://viovis.chaosnet.org/us.html for those interested, as i'm leaning this to smileymzx that is looking for tweaks and bitbot who is looking to expand his linky game to its full potential. When initiating searching for all these I cycled through multiple hexers so I could search for multiple strings, but with this you don't need a font which compromises your default character set, which means less tsrs and despite quantum_p's protest keeps zzt more pure. I get tired of seeing character 2 white on blue all the time and so do you, just look into your heart and admit it. It MIGHT be interesting to saxxonpike as well as it shows that the character changes after being invincible... and the player hurt character changes. and the title screen player character.. and the weird way the

And bitbot / commodore / aplsos keep gting it and idle/lurk in #glorioustrainwrecks on freenode if you want. I get some good vibes over there. I either go by the nick bushrod or vivois.
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Re: Lyon

Post by Smilymzx »

ghettoflower wrote:Compliments (in Wall of text)
Thanks for your kind words.

I just recently revamped ZZO38's BRD2MZM code (in Enhanced CWEB, Convertable to C) to use SuperZZT boards and now able to use them as partial Megazeux MZMs, But modded the code for the use of some equivelent elements.

I will submit a build to DigitalMZX once I do some tweaks to the coding, But for now, I am doing some tests...

Also the TSRs were very obsoleted by my decision to make a possible use out of Roton, but just in case, I am going to do newer, better TSRs when I have the time, ability and code...

BRDtoMZM (the base code) is Here under MZCNVPAK, ECWEB is already compiled, and is open source in Public Domain:
http://www.digitalmzx.net/forums/index. ... opic=15013
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Re: Lyon

Post by Saxxon »

I did a huge optimization that makes Avarice run at full speed. Runs way better than any DOS emulator now :) Games that do a lot of board modification won't take up nearly as much CPU now.
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Re: Lyon

Post by bitbot »

ghettoflower wrote:despite quantum_p's protest keeps zzt more pure. I get tired of seeing character 2 white on blue all the time and so do you, just look into your heart and admit it. It MIGHT be interesting to saxxonpike as well as it shows that the character changes after being invincible... and the player hurt character changes. and the title screen player character.. and the weird way the

And bitbot / commodore / aplsos keep gting it and idle/lurk in #glorioustrainwrecks on freenode if you want. I get some good vibes over there. I either go by the nick bushrod or vivois.
Hi Viovis. I agree. For example, I'd love a white on green char 2 for Link II. Anywhere where you can add features without breaking the original format would be great. Allow it to evolve without mutating into something like mzx. The ball is in your court Saxx!
Saxxon wrote:I did a huge optimization that makes Avarice run at full speed. Runs way better than any DOS emulator now :) Games that do a lot of board modification won't take up nearly as much CPU now.
Great news. :tie:

Hard to believe there's less than 30 SZZT titles out there but some of the most influential authors left their mark on the platform. (Chris Jong, Janson, Herc, Hyrdra and Viovis to name a few.)

It's a solid format begging to be revived and fully integrated. Keep up the good work! I'll provide more input while I got superz on the brain.
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Re: Lyon

Post by Saxxon »

bitbot wrote:
ghettoflower wrote:despite quantum_p's protest keeps zzt more pure. I get tired of seeing character 2 white on blue all the time and so do you, just look into your heart and admit it. It MIGHT be interesting to saxxonpike as well as it shows that the character changes after being invincible... and the player hurt character changes. and the title screen player character.. and the weird way the

And bitbot / commodore / aplsos keep gting it and idle/lurk in #glorioustrainwrecks on freenode if you want. I get some good vibes over there. I either go by the nick bushrod or vivois.
Hi Viovis. I agree. For example, I'd love a white on green char 2 for Link II. Anywhere where you can add features without breaking the original format would be great. Allow it to evolve without mutating into something like mzx. The ball is in your court Saxx!
External config file that matches the file name of the world being loaded. Alternatively, since Lyon supports loading from a ZIP archive, I think it would be more convenient to leave all the game worlds in the archive and have it auto-load the one config file in there.

ZZT allows all the element's properties to be changed- in fact, you actually see this when the game changes the player's character during energize (and this is reflected in dead player clones when you switch boards.) The way that the ElementList is configured, it would not be hard to change the properties of any element. I would limit the capabilities to a few things and here's why: suppose you decide to change the default color of ammo. Some games rely on this default color to create tiles in colors otherwise unusable through standard OOP.

Changing the player's color wouldn't be a huge deal in ZZT because it's not really used for color generation, and the game forces the color anyway. Conveniently, the engine is designed to force it based on the element default, and not some hardcoded value.

The player is a special case, and you can see the game's behavior in this source file around line 700:
https://github.com/SaxxonPike/Roton/blo ... ZZT/Act.cs

On an unrelated note, I will also begin refining the code in a way that is compatible with Mono, which is a cross platform implementation of .NET- for example, you would be able to run this application on Linux without Wine. I do not know how far support goes for DirectX-related functions. Lyon and Roton use version 2.0 of the .NET framework, which is included as standard with recent versions of Windows, so conveniently doesn't use any really advanced features.
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