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 Post subject: Re: Lyon
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:31 am 
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fgsdfs
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The code editor needs a grey line or something to indicate the normal width of the zzt window. I like the layout a lot more than zap, it seems more intuitive, but the "thing info" tab looks intimidating, it needs to be a bit more descriptive. I couldn't figure out how to enter text onto the board. Maybe that's not in yet. It would be cool if you could drag and drop the rooms in the list to rearrange them, or even better with the objects to organize their stat numbers to make efficient engines, but I should be maybe right click on an object and get a context menu, or a way to set it as the current brush. A flexible select/copy/paste like kevedit would be very beneficial. I also think a spray can would be cool.

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 Post subject: Re: Lyon
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:42 pm 
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the Gargoyle.
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Text entry is not implemented yet, you are correct.

I'm on the fence about how to implement the code editor. I thought of using RichText so that syntax highlighting was possible, and I also thought of creating a custom draw surface which would reflect true ASCII characters in the font used but this would require more work to get copy/paste working. I could do a lot more with that second method but it's more work.

Context menu on the thing list would be pretty easy to do, I like that idea. Drag and drop organization would be possible too. Very good ideas.


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 Post subject: Re: Lyon
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:08 am 
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There must be some mono-spaced DOS-style fonts you could use with a richtext editor.

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 Post subject: Re: Lyon
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:43 am 
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the Gargoyle.
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That just seems like a duplication of efforts. Plus I'm sure it would be nice to see what the text would look like using the game's font. On the fly generation of an appropriate font file is out of the question. Using a premade font will be my last resort, but I really hate to make people install anything extra. Some people are having to install the .NET framework just for this already.


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 Post subject: Re: Lyon
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:26 am 
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maybe a method to test how it would look in a window, sort of like how you already test boards. You've already got the code to display the inside of a scroll, click test, a window containing only an open scroll appears with the code inside, save syntax highlighting for the richtext textbox. Again, drawing in the scroll would be difficult, but maybe you could have a separate scroll editor, where you could actually draw on the scroll with characters.

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 Post subject: Re: Lyon
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:39 pm 
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the Gargoyle.
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I like your idea! The ability to test specific code/scrolls would be excellent. I'd of course need to learn how to code for RichText styling to make syntax highlighting a reality.

I want to allow people to code longer lines than ZZT allows. This will display odd things in the ZZT editor of course, but the gameplay will work just fine as ZZT has an internal line length limit of 255. I could implement an option to limit line lengths to make it easier if you were going to edit in something else later. Maybe color a line differently if it is too long to display in a scroll.


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 Post subject: Re: Lyon
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:07 pm 
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Yay for long lines!

Different length limits per line would be cool. If the first character is #, max line length is 255; otherwise, it's 42 (or whatever it is). That way, you could mix text and code easily.


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 Post subject: Re: Lyon
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:55 am 
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the Gargoyle.
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Quantum P. wrote:
Yay for long lines!

Different length limits per line would be cool. If the first character is #, max line length is 255; otherwise, it's 42 (or whatever it is). That way, you could mix text and code easily.
Great idea. :)

Suppose I'd better brush up on RichText. I never did like the syntax (try finding some good documentation and examples), but it seems like the only option at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: Lyon
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:45 pm 
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the Gargoyle.
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I tried to use the editor to create something. I really, really do not like the interface.

What do you guys think? Have you run into anything that stops your typical flow?


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 Post subject: Re: Lyon
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:44 pm 
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I will give it a go this weekend and see how I get on. My private little WoZ.

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 Post subject: Re: Lyon
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:43 am 
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I hope she made lotsa spaghetti!
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I would like to help, as I would like to write a little thing or two as an intro for Lyon.

EDIT - Made this easy to read for most people.


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 Post subject: Re: Lyon
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:45 am 
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the Gargoyle.
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Since so much is subject to change in Lyon as it isn't considered finished yet, might not be a great idea to start writing anything up yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Lyon
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:59 am 
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I hope she made lotsa spaghetti!
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Saxxon wrote:
Since so much is subject to change in Lyon as it isn't considered finished yet, might not be a great idea to start writing anything up yet.


I meant to write up the project's premise, history of Lyon, and so forth.

Tell me when you are ready. Just so I can do a little bit of a contribution. :keen:


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 Post subject: Re: Lyon
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:07 am 
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I've been screwing about with it, and you know, I think the biggest hangup is that I'm used to cursor keys and shortcuts. Also the old editors are also a lot more visual. This is a game from 1991, it should have an interface as simple as 1991. They show you what you're drawing with, and what other elements look like. Kevedit hides its complexity under an editor that on the surface is as simple as the original. I feel the tabs are too upfront. They intimidate the designer into imagining there's more depth that they have to mess with. We may be programmers, but ZZT is designed for programmers of all skill levels, so the amount of editor you have to cut through to design should be minimal. As it is it feels more like an IDE than a welcoming toy to play with.

I may have said otherwise, but I think context menu on the board is useless. I'd rather have it erase.

Anyway: I guess I compare it too much too what has been. But a game played with a keyboard might not be best designed with a mouse. Not that the usefulness of a mouse is understated, and actually I've done some neat things with it. (all my boards with the exception of two in that collaborative project AAAAAA were done in ZAP.) The ones that weren't were programming heavy, where I preferred typing into the zzt scroll.

The coding is not really a problem, but drawing is. I think zzt does not look as interesting unless it fills the whole screen, and this goes for editing as well as playing.

Smilymzx: Good idea for wiki. It might be cool for a short write-up of ZAP, though even just as an editor Lyon has pretty much succeeded it.

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 Post subject: Re: Lyon
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:58 pm 
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I hope she made lotsa spaghetti!
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Commodore wrote:
I've been screwing about with it, and you know, I think the biggest hangup is that I'm used to cursor keys and shortcuts. Also the old editors are also a lot more visual. This is a game from 1991, it should have an interface as simple as 1991. They show you what you're drawing with, and what other elements look like. Kevedit hides its complexity under an editor that on the surface is as simple as the original. I feel the tabs are too upfront. They intimidate the designer into imagining there's more depth that they have to mess with. We may be programmers, but ZZT is designed for programmers of all skill levels, so the amount of editor you have to cut through to design should be minimal. As it is it feels more like an IDE than a welcoming toy to play with.

I may have said otherwise, but I think context menu on the board is useless. I'd rather have it erase.


I agree with Commodore, We need something to build on display wise, Since Roton is going to be a portable library based off the work of Lyon, SDL May be a simple base, or if some want old-style: possibly a port using plain text consoles (like a port to Python or X-Windows for Linux)

Commodore wrote:
Smilymzx: Good idea for wiki. It might be cool for a short write-up of ZAP, though even just as an editor Lyon has pretty much succeeded it.


Thanks for your support, Commodore.

Even though it is going to take a long time to get a wiki up, I may host it on a googlepage on it's own in the future once Lyon is finished in some way.


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